To celebrate the release of HIDEO KOJIMA: CONNECTING WORLDS, we sat down with Film Director, Glen Milner, to discuss the documentary, his career, and what it was like to tell the story of Hideo Kojima’s journey to create DEATH STRANDING: the game which changed the face of interactive storytelling and explore the inspiration and artistry of one of gaming’s true auteurs.
Pulling back the curtain on the behind-the-scenes film, Glen also gives us insights behind his own projects and his plans for the future. This interview lifts the lid on the creative process behind Milner’s work and adds depth to HIDEO KOJIMA: CONNECTING WORLDS.
How did you get into documentary filmmaking? What inspired you?
I started by making short docs, as I liked the freedom of taking a camera and shooting in small teams or just by myself. I didn’t have to rely on large crews that I was used to working with on features such as Terrence Malick’s ‘Tree of Life’ or TV dramas in the U.K when I was in the camera department. There is also an uncertainly that comes with non-scripted work that makes the process of following a story unpredictable and exciting, so you never know what might happen or what you might capture from one day to the next, where the story might lead you, and the different people you’ll meet. It was also a time when digital cinematography was evolving really fast, and cameras were getting better and better with more affordable or rentable cinema cameras that were capable of producing beautiful images.
Can you take us back to the first time you met Hideo Kojima? Where were you, and what did you discuss about the project?
I was kindly introduced to Hideo Kojima via Jordan Vogt-Roberts at KJP back in 2018 and going back even further, I was introduced to Jordan via Gareth Edwards as I had made a Rogue One documentary for him. At the Tokyo studio, we discussed the idea of a film celebrating Death Stranding and the groundbreaking work that were happening at Kojima Productions, and I remember giving Kojima-san a special edition of the film ‘Control’ by Anton Corbijn (which he of course already had!). He gave me a copy of the photography book from the very same film, so I think we were off to a good start.
We filmed some bits with him at the studio and captured a few early conversations, so it evolved from there really. In those early days, we discussed showing how Kojima-san was across all the different departments and how we’d like to make something that introduced his unique creative process at the same time as documenting the journey of Death Stranding. Also, how interesting it would be to have artists from other disciplines discuss his work and video games as an art-form in general.
What were your first thoughts on the studio, and how did they change as the project went on?
Of course, the entrance to that studio was impressive, but I really remember being instantly impressed by the amount of detail that Kojima-san and his incredibly talented team operate at; it’s just incredible. The level of thought that goes into every aspect of design and gameplay was so impressive. And Kojima-san was across all of it, constantly making decisions. It also felt like his creative process really informed the design of the studio -- all on one floor where he can move from team to team. It was very inspiring being around that level of creativity.
What was it like working with Hideo during production, and how were some of the stylistic choices made?
It was a special experience and one that I won’t ever forget. Metal Gear Solid is still my favourite game of all time, and I’m not just saying that. I bought all the original figures back in the late 90’s and still have them all to this very day (boxed, of course). So, to actually get to work with somebody that has inspired you like that is a dream.
Kojima-san was very open to the approach and visual style of the film. I wanted him to be moving through Tokyo, coming into contact with people and places that have inspired him through this journey. I also wanted to explore this notion of ‘fragmented ideas’ that Kojima-san speaks of when discussing how his ideas form, so visually I wanted to break sequences down by jump cutting, using in-camera effects such as film flashing, and cranking the camera on and off to ramp as the camera moved. It was a lot of fun to experiment with how far you can push the image on film. Using 16mm film was designed to reflect his passion for film, and I think it adds a wonderful energy and texture to the images that you can almost feel. We worked with the wonderful DP, Erwan Cloarec, to create those beautiful, vivid images but shooting on film on location isn’t always the fastest way to work; you need more crew and to be able to load film on the move, but Kojima-san was incredibly patient with us. It’s not normal for a documentary these days to take this approach, but he gave us trust and room to explore.
Another choice we had to make was how to bring some of Kojima-san’s younger years to life since we didn’t have any footage available to us. These were some of the most informative years of his life that would influence his outlook to this day and the themes of Death Stranding, so I looked back at early chats we had captured and remembered his love of manga and animation as a child. We explored different animation studios that could create something special, and we lucky enough to have D’ART Shtajio come onboard to work with us. They made an incredible episode of Star Wars Visions called ‘The Pit,’ and we were lucky that they were free. We wanted a slightly retro feel to the animation, so we even used Kodak film stock looks to help it align with the overall look of the documentary. Writing the story beats for those sequences and seeing it come to life like that was amazing.
The archive and time-lapse sequences were designed to evoke memory on the theme of connection. I had shot some of these over several visits to Japan using lost exposures on an old RED Epic to create the blurred motion of life passing by as you stand still observing, which I wanted to use to add another layer to the story of Kojima-san’s thought process. The archive, too, was from the very same Osaka expo that Kojima-san went to as a child and was also shot on film, so it has this beautiful timeless feel. It inspired him so much in terms of connection and technology, and we were so grateful to have the privilege of using it to show how the experience influenced not only Death Stranding but also his philosophy on life.
5. What was the thought process behind the music and what inspired that?
We would love to have had Joy Division, New Order, Depeche Mode and other artists that have had an impact on Kojima-san’s life, but it was just never going to be possible without an extraordinary budget to play with. The process of choosing the music would have been great as there is nothing better than putting images to music, but we got the next best thing working with two fantastic composers, Simon Williams and Amory Leader, whom I have worked with on film projects in the past. We wanted to avoid any retro games music approaches to the sound and instead, I really wanted to hear what vintage synthesizers would sound like to create music that had a rich texture to it and would work well with the visual approach. They did an incredible job.
For our end track, I fell in love with a stripped-back version of Death Stranding by CHVRCHES, which they recorded during lockdown. It felt so reflective and has a real sense of longing that reminded me of Absolute Beginners by David Bowie. It just fits so well with the outlook of the documentary. They kindly let us use the track, and I hope they make it available one day as I think it’s currently only on YouTube, I believe. In terms of songwriting, it’s one of the best pieces of music I’ve heard in years.
6. Hideo is well known for his love of film; how do you think this influences his work?
I think how much he immerses you in the story and characters of his games is a reflection of his love of cinema. He understands that you need to care in order to be invested and that constant uncertainty of not knowing what will happen next -- to unsettle you and control your emotions -- also reflects the tension and suspense of films. But tonally, his work is utterly unique in how it shifts from the surreal to humour and then to drama, and I can’t think of many others that are able to do that. That is where the original Kojima special sauce comes in, I think. That and the incredible design of the worlds he builds, which are so cinematic and really stay with you. His games create a feeling when you experience them. It’s not just getting from one object to another and advancing as you play; it’s about being present somewhere and becoming that character and forgetting all else, just like you do when you are immersed by pure cinema.
But generally speaking, we don’t talk that much about movies together, which is nice really. Cinematography, yes, but not so much films. Each time we would visit the studio to shoot, I would make sure to take some vinyl from London for Kojima-san. So, we would spend more time discussing music -- and still do now to this day -- as we have very similar tastes. I enjoy that we don’t just talk about films or video games. Werner Herzog famously said the most important thing to do as a film director is to read, not watch other films. In other words, to be invested in other art forms that make you think differently. And this is something I feel Kojima-san also believes and something we wanted to reflect in the documentary.
7. What were some of the challenges you faced, and what did you learn over the course of filming the documentary?
We faced all kinds of challenges with Covid and entry into Japan as we wanted to capture the making-of the Death Stranding Director’s Cut in a lot of detail, but that just became impossible. Kojima-san was very accommodating as we adapted along the way. The documentary found a balance of behind the scenes, personal events that have influenced his outlook and approach, and the philosophy behind the game. It was important that we focused on how games should be rightly considered a legitimate art form and what better way to demonstrate that by capturing the creative process of a genuine auteur at work.
8. Lastly, what was your favourite part of working on the documentary?
Premiering at the Tribeca Film Festival was the perfect way to round off this incredible journey and then to also have it stream on Disney+ is amazing really. It’s great to have something like this -- a celebration of video games -- on a global platform like that. In terms of the shoot, I’d say my favourite moment was going back to the coastal town where Kojima-san grew up. It was just beautiful there and a part of Japan I’ve never experienced. But overall with documentary filmmaking, it’s the people that you meet and connect with along the way that stay with you. Kojima-san and his dedicated talented team will always be an inspiration. In terms of future plans, who knows. But a full series or long 4-hour observational deep dive following ‘A HIDEO KOJIMA GAME’ would be pretty special, wouldn’t it.
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